8 May
2024
8 May
'24
8:49 a.m.
Hi list,
I have heard rumors that Calf plugins could soon be dropped from
distributions mainly due to GTK2 dependency (see e.g. issue where
already in 2022 the Arch Linux maintainer is warning about this) [1].
Overall last Calf GitHub activity seems to indicate 3 years ago.
I'd say the only plugin I used and still use quite a lot is the 'Vintage
Delay' mainly due to its controls [2] and its 'final' result / effect
(i.e. what I hear), so essentially I'm considering the creative /
expressive aspects of this plugin, not its 'technical' features.
I know technical talks about these plug-ins are particularly
'flammable', but please keep in mind my question is purely posed as
'linux audio user' i.e. some dude trying to use Linux and FOSS to make
music - do also keep in mind this is/was (also historically as LADSPA)
the most widespread delay plugin around ;-)
BPM (sync or arbitrary) and stereo features (''ping-pong' or stereo
mode) including musical ratio (sub) divisions are maybe the most
important features for me as well as the straight-forward controls (from
a UX / musical wokflow perspective). i.e. I'd like a delay plugin where
I don't have to solve BPM to millisecond formulas and calculate left and
right delays each time (for that I already have a self-made Pd patch).
Any recommendations for possible substitutes, ideally FOSS, alternatives
- even better something I could just put in as a replacement on stereo
tracks / busses where this plug-in exists in my projects?
Or if it doesn't exist any friends from LAD willing to make one (I'd be
willing to help with requirements and testing etc.)?
I have a proof of concept of a simpler 'stereo delay' (without the
musical times) made in Pd which mimics this but I'd prefer a LV2 (or
similar) plugin. Also with the 'echo' plugin in recent Yoshimi versions
which can sync to BPM and allows independent left-right delay controls I
have obtained similar creative results (albeit only for yoshimi sounds,
of course).
Lorenzo
[1] https://github.com/calf-studio-gear/calf/issues/248
[2] https://calf-studio-gear.org/doc/Vintage%20Delay.html
8 May
8 May
9:45 a.m.
On 5/7/24 20:49, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Hi list,
I have heard rumors that Calf plugins could soon be dropped from
distributions mainly due to GTK2 dependency (see e.g. issue where
already in 2022 the Arch Linux maintainer is warning about this) [1].
Overall last Calf GitHub activity seems to indicate 3 years ago.
I'd say the only plugin I used and still use quite a lot is the
'Vintage Delay' mainly due to its controls [2] and its 'final' result
/ effect (i.e. what I hear), so essentially I'm considering the
creative / expressive aspects of this plugin, not its 'technical'
features.
I know technical talks about these plug-ins are particularly
'flammable', but please keep in mind my question is purely posed as
'linux audio user' i.e. some dude trying to use Linux and FOSS to make
music - do also keep in mind this is/was (also historically as LADSPA)
the most widespread delay plugin around ;-)
BPM (sync or arbitrary) and stereo features (''ping-pong' or stereo
mode) including musical ratio (sub) divisions are maybe the most
important features for me as well as the straight-forward controls
(from a UX / musical wokflow perspective). i.e. I'd like a delay
plugin where I don't have to solve BPM to millisecond formulas and
calculate left and right delays each time (for that I already have a
self-made Pd patch).
Any recommendations for possible substitutes, ideally FOSS,
alternatives - even better something I could just put in as a
replacement on stereo tracks / busses where this plug-in exists in my
projects?
Or if it doesn't exist any friends from LAD willing to make one (I'd
be willing to help with requirements and testing etc.)?
I have a proof of concept of a simpler 'stereo delay' (without the
musical times) made in Pd which mimics this but I'd prefer a LV2 (or
similar) plugin. Also with the 'echo' plugin in recent Yoshimi
versions which can sync to BPM and allows independent left-right delay
controls I have obtained similar creative results (albeit only for
yoshimi sounds, of course).
Lorenzo
[1] https://github.com/calf-studio-gear/calf/issues/248
[2] https://calf-studio-gear.org/doc/Vintage%20Delay.html
Hmm, the thought occurs to me...can an external sound be fed in Yoshimi
(or Zyn), processed there, and output?
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
"My password is the last 8 digits of π."
10:13 a.m.
Have you tried the LSP offering? Not sure it meets all your requirement but it does a
fair bit.
https://lsp-plug.in/?page=manuals§ion=art_delay_stereo
Cheers
John
5:11 p.m.
On Wed, May 8, 2024, at 1:49 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
I have a proof of concept of a simpler 'stereo
delay' (without the
musical times) made in Pd which mimics this but I'd prefer a LV2 (or
similar) plugin.
You might be able to turn your PD patch into a plugin? Plug data is great, though it's
in development and has some limitations depending on what you are targeting -- I've
just played around with using it to make little firmware patches for the electrosmith
daisy but I see it also has an LV2 target: https://plugdata.org/
Erik
9 May
9 May
5:17 p.m.
Whenever I use Calf, I usually use the ladspa versions (which don't have
guis and don't need gtk2, I think), believe it or not.
If you are on arch, you can install it from here
<https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/calf-ladspa>. I think the ladspa
plugins tend to be more reliable for me.
Brandon Hale
On 5/8/24 02:49, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Hi list,
I have heard rumors that Calf plugins could soon be dropped from
distributions mainly due to GTK2 dependency (see e.g. issue where
already in 2022 the Arch Linux maintainer is warning about this) [1].
Overall last Calf GitHub activity seems to indicate 3 years ago.
I'd say the only plugin I used and still use quite a lot is the
'Vintage Delay' mainly due to its controls [2] and its 'final' result
/ effect (i.e. what I hear), so essentially I'm considering the
creative / expressive aspects of this plugin, not its 'technical'
features.
I know technical talks about these plug-ins are particularly
'flammable', but please keep in mind my question is purely posed as
'linux audio user' i.e. some dude trying to use Linux and FOSS to make
music - do also keep in mind this is/was (also historically as LADSPA)
the most widespread delay plugin around ;-)
BPM (sync or arbitrary) and stereo features (''ping-pong' or stereo
mode) including musical ratio (sub) divisions are maybe the most
important features for me as well as the straight-forward controls
(from a UX / musical wokflow perspective). i.e. I'd like a delay
plugin where I don't have to solve BPM to millisecond formulas and
calculate left and right delays each time (for that I already have a
self-made Pd patch).
Any recommendations for possible substitutes, ideally FOSS,
alternatives - even better something I could just put in as a
replacement on stereo tracks / busses where this plug-in exists in my
projects?
Or if it doesn't exist any friends from LAD willing to make one (I'd
be willing to help with requirements and testing etc.)?
I have a proof of concept of a simpler 'stereo delay' (without the
musical times) made in Pd which mimics this but I'd prefer a LV2 (or
similar) plugin. Also with the 'echo' plugin in recent Yoshimi
versions which can sync to BPM and allows independent left-right delay
controls I have obtained similar creative results (albeit only for
yoshimi sounds, of course).
Lorenzo
[1] https://github.com/calf-studio-gear/calf/issues/248
[2] https://calf-studio-gear.org/doc/Vintage%20Delay.html
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list -- linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
To unsubscribe send an email to
linux-audio-user-leave(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
5:46 p.m.
Hello Lorenzo,
On 5/8/24 08:49, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Hi list,
I have heard rumors that Calf plugins could soon be dropped from
distributions mainly due to GTK2 dependency (see e.g. issue where
already in 2022 the Arch Linux maintainer is warning about this) [1].
Overall last Calf GitHub activity seems to indicate 3 years ago.
I'd say the only plugin I used and still use quite a lot is the 'Vintage
Delay' mainly due to its controls [2] and its 'final' result / effect
(i.e. what I hear), so essentially I'm considering the creative /
expressive aspects of this plugin, not its 'technical' features.
I know technical talks about these plug-ins are particularly
'flammable', but please keep in mind my question is purely posed as
'linux audio user' i.e. some dude trying to use Linux and FOSS to make
music - do also keep in mind this is/was (also historically as LADSPA)
the most widespread delay plugin around ;-)
BPM (sync or arbitrary) and stereo features (''ping-pong' or stereo
mode) including musical ratio (sub) divisions are maybe the most
important features for me as well as the straight-forward controls (from
a UX / musical wokflow perspective). i.e. I'd like a delay plugin where
I don't have to solve BPM to millisecond formulas and calculate left and
right delays each time (for that I already have a self-made Pd patch).
Any recommendations for possible substitutes, ideally FOSS, alternatives
- even better something I could just put in as a replacement on stereo
tracks / busses where this plug-in exists in my projects?
Or if it doesn't exist any friends from LAD willing to make one (I'd be
willing to help with requirements and testing etc.)?
I have a proof of concept of a simpler 'stereo delay' (without the
musical times) made in Pd which mimics this but I'd prefer a LV2 (or
similar) plugin. Also with the 'echo' plugin in recent Yoshimi versions
which can sync to BPM and allows independent left-right delay controls I
have obtained similar creative results (albeit only for yoshimi sounds,
of course).
Lorenzo
[1] https://github.com/calf-studio-gear/calf/issues/248
[2] https://calf-studio-gear.org/doc/Vintage%20Delay.html
You might want to check out this initiative:
https://github.com/falkTX/lv2-gtk-ui-bridge
Regards,
Jeremy
12 May
12 May
3:06 p.m.
Thanks everyone for the many suggestions and pointers - I will summarize
answers following this latest message citing the original messages.
At the end I'm also listing some possible substitutes I tried...
On 5/8/24 08:49, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I have heard rumors that Calf plugins could soon be dropped from
> distributions mainly due to GTK2 dependency (see e.g. issue where
> already in 2022 the Arch Linux maintainer is warning about this) [1].
> Overall last Calf GitHub activity seems to indicate 3 years ago.
>
> [...]
On 09/05/2024 17:46, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
You might want to check out this initiative:
https://github.com/falkTX/lv2-gtk-ui-bridge
Interesting project but I'm not sure how this would mitigate the
potential issue of Calf being removed from distributions in terms also
of 'longer term' for audio projects.
On 09/05/2024 17:17, Brandon Hale wrote:
Whenever I use Calf, I usually use the ladspa versions (which don't
have guis and don't need gtk2, I think), believe it or not.
If you are on arch, you can install it from here
<https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/calf-ladspa>. I think the ladspa
plugins tend to be more reliable for me.
Similar to the above, LADSPA would work fine but that (e.g. on Arch or
Manjaro which I'm using) is in AUR so still there's a question of
finding a more sustainable and maintained substitute.
On 08/05/2024 17:11, Erik Schoster wrote:
On Wed, May 8, 2024, at 1:49 AM, Lorenzo Sutton
wrote:
great, though
it's in development and has some limitations depending on
what you are targeting -- I've just played around with using it to make
little firmware patches for the electrosmith daisy but I see it also has
an LV2 target: https://plugdata.org/
Plug Data is a great project but as you said it is in development and
with that sort of potential variability I would then opt to maybe
connect directly the Pure Data patch (e.g. using JACK / pipewire), but
not the preferred method for e.g. Ardour sessions or similar where an
LV2 / VST-linux / CLAP (?) would be preferred to have a somewhat
'self-enclosed' session
On 08/05/2024 10:13, Sirjohndfox wrote:
I have a proof of concept of a simpler
'stereo delay' (without the
musical times) made in Pd which mimics this but I'd prefer a LV2 (or
similar) plugin.
You might be able to turn your PD patch into a plugin? Plug data is Have you tried the LSP offering? Not sure it meets
all your requirement but it does a fair bit.
https://lsp-plug.in/?page=manuals§ion=art_delay_stereo
I tried that plug-in but the interface seems extremely complicated (and
probably very powerful - a trait of various of the LSP plugins): I
wasn't able to achieve a simple BPM based 'ping-pong' delay nor could I
figure out how to do it by reading the documentation provided on the
website, so maybe this is a bit overkill.
On 08/05/2024 09:45, david wrote:
[...]
Hmm, the thought occurs to me...can an external sound be fed in
Yoshimi (or Zyn), processed there, and output?
No (as also discussed on the Yoshimi mailing list), and my reference to
Yoshimi was more to provide an idea of a plugin which can achieve
similar results to what I'm after ;-)
Other plug-ins I tried:
- TAL Dub: it seems to have a few of the features I'm after,
unfortunately the delay time is in milliseconds and it's not possible to
enter an exact numerical value (say 500 for a 120 BPM tempo or 600 for
100 BPM etc.). Also in the 'generic' interface (as provided e.g. by
Ardour or Carla) the dealy time is normalised 0 to 1 - so yes one can
calculate the proportion (e.g. 600 ms would be 1.5) but that's the exact
kind of overhead which often kills any creative mood :-)
- ACE delay: Very straightforward controls which I like. Unfortunately
this is mono only and seems to only work with Ardour. It also
interestingly has delay time only as milliseconds albeit offering BPM
sync and musical times division control
- GxDelay-Stereo: has independent left/right time / gain controls (time
in milliseconds) and a ping-pong control. It doesn't seem to have
feedback which seems a little odd
- GxEcho-Stereo: this seems to be the same as above with a fixed
feedback (i.e. no feedback control)
- Gxdigital_delay_st: seems to have simlar controls and approach to the
Calf one: BPM tempo, possibility of sync, musical divisions, a few
different modes including "tape" and hi-pass and low-pass. The problem
is that although it does come up as stereo (2 ins 2 outs) it seems to
actually work in mono (tested with Ardour and Carla)
3:10 p.m.
Hi folks,
another one,
https://github.com/jpcima/DelayArchitect
My 2cts,
Nico
Le 12/05/2024 à 15:06, Lorenzo Sutton a écrit :
Thanks everyone for the many suggestions and pointers
- I will
summarize answers following this latest message citing the original
messages.
At the end I'm also listing some possible substitutes I tried...
On 5/8/24 08:49, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I have heard rumors that Calf plugins could soon be dropped from
> distributions mainly due to GTK2 dependency (see e.g. issue where
> already in 2022 the Arch Linux maintainer is warning about this)
> [1]. Overall last Calf GitHub activity seems to indicate 3 years ago.
>
> [...]
On 09/05/2024 17:46, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
You might want to check out this initiative:
https://github.com/falkTX/lv2-gtk-ui-bridge
Interesting project but I'm not sure how this would mitigate the
potential issue of Calf being removed from distributions in terms also
of 'longer term' for audio projects.
On 09/05/2024 17:17, Brandon Hale wrote:
Whenever I use Calf, I usually use the ladspa versions (which don't
have guis and don't need gtk2, I think), believe it or not.
If you are on arch, you can install it from here
<https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/calf-ladspa>. I think the ladspa
plugins tend to be more reliable for me.
Similar to the above, LADSPA would work fine but that (e.g. on Arch or
Manjaro which I'm using) is in AUR so still there's a question of
finding a more sustainable and maintained substitute.
On 08/05/2024 17:11, Erik Schoster wrote:
On Wed, May 8, 2024, at 1:49 AM, Lorenzo Sutton
wrote:
great, though
it's in development and has some limitations depending
on what you are targeting -- I've just played around with using it to
make little firmware patches for the electrosmith daisy but I see it
also has an LV2 target: https://plugdata.org/
Plug Data is a great project but as you said it is in development and
with that sort of potential variability I would then opt to maybe
connect directly the Pure Data patch (e.g. using JACK / pipewire), but
not the preferred method for e.g. Ardour sessions or similar where an
LV2 / VST-linux / CLAP (?) would be preferred to have a somewhat
'self-enclosed' session
On 08/05/2024 10:13, Sirjohndfox wrote:
I have a proof of concept of a simpler
'stereo delay' (without the
musical times) made in Pd which mimics this but I'd prefer a LV2 (or
similar) plugin.
You might be able to turn your PD patch into a plugin? Plug data is Have you tried the LSP offering? Not sure it
meets all your requirement but it does a fair bit.
https://lsp-plug.in/?page=manuals§ion=art_delay_stereo
I tried that plug-in but the interface seems extremely complicated
(and probably very powerful - a trait of various of the LSP plugins):
I wasn't able to achieve a simple BPM based 'ping-pong' delay nor
could I figure out how to do it by reading the documentation provided
on the website, so maybe this is a bit overkill.
On 08/05/2024 09:45, david wrote:
[...]
Hmm, the thought occurs to me...can an external sound be fed in
Yoshimi (or Zyn), processed there, and output?
No (as also discussed on the Yoshimi mailing list), and my reference
to Yoshimi was more to provide an idea of a plugin which can achieve
similar results to what I'm after ;-)
Other plug-ins I tried:
- TAL Dub: it seems to have a few of the features I'm after,
unfortunately the delay time is in milliseconds and it's not possible
to enter an exact numerical value (say 500 for a 120 BPM tempo or 600
for 100 BPM etc.). Also in the 'generic' interface (as provided e.g.
by Ardour or Carla) the dealy time is normalised 0 to 1 - so yes one
can calculate the proportion (e.g. 600 ms would be 1.5) but that's the
exact kind of overhead which often kills any creative mood :-)
- ACE delay: Very straightforward controls which I like. Unfortunately
this is mono only and seems to only work with Ardour. It also
interestingly has delay time only as milliseconds albeit offering BPM
sync and musical times division control
- GxDelay-Stereo: has independent left/right time / gain controls
(time in milliseconds) and a ping-pong control. It doesn't seem to
have feedback which seems a little odd
- GxEcho-Stereo: this seems to be the same as above with a fixed
feedback (i.e. no feedback control)
- Gxdigital_delay_st: seems to have simlar controls and approach to
the Calf one: BPM tempo, possibility of sync, musical divisions, a few
different modes including "tape" and hi-pass and low-pass. The problem
is that although it does come up as stereo (2 ins 2 outs) it seems to
actually work in mono (tested with Ardour and Carla)
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list --linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
To unsubscribe send an email tolinux-audio-user-leave(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
4:04 p.m.
Hello Lorenzo,
On 5/12/24 15:06, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Interesting project but I'm not sure how this
would mitigate the
potential issue of Calf being removed from distributions in terms also
of 'longer term' for audio projects.
True, it only solves the current issue with hosts that do not load
GTK2/GTK3 based plugins. It doesn't solve the issue at hand what plugin
to use when GTK2/GTK3 does get removed.
Jeremy
148
days inactive
152
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Brandon Hale -
david -
Erik Schoster -
Jeremy Jongepier -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Nicolas Faure -
Sirjohndfox