on the contrary! once you get the hang of it, it's no different than using a piano roll editor. and, as a bonus, you can make polyphonic chords glide into each other, controlling the start and end notes of each poly glide. -w On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, at 21:29, rosea grammostola wrote:

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 4:10 PM, david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote: Interestingly, I'm no fan of trackers or piano roll editors, but I've always liked radium's interface. There's something unique about it. So maybe keep an open mind (I know, what a drag...) and give it a try.

On 04/15/2014 10:21 PM, William Light wrote: Agreed, trackers are very powerful, also in this aspect. However trying to figure out which note off goes with what note on a polyphonic track in renoise, especially if it's something that been played by a real person, is not really my idea of fun. I've been using renoise for years, and this (good handling of midi recordings) is one of the (many) reasons I'm currently looking for another DAW... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

On 04/16/2014 12:53 PM, Vytautas Jancauskas wrote: From the top of my head: * No support for sustain pedal on renoise native instruments (and no interest in adding it) * Doesn't work well with lot's of long samples * X-fade loop broken, no interest in fixing, I even posted a python script to show how it's done without magic * New version is a step in a direction I don't like * "remove unused samples" feature removed * loop editor removed * don't get the new instrument design True. In '09 when I started using renoise, the options were quite limited. Renoise was the only stable, well rounded music software I could find. I always felt that the tracker interface counter-productive and backwards (although it has it's strong points). So you could say that I lived with and learned to work with/agains the tracker part of renoise until now. Today it's different, there are quite a few options. -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

On 04/16/2014 01:42 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: Well the first I tried was NON, but for various reasons that didn't fit the bill. I've been trying out reaper for about three weeks now, it seems very promising so far. Flexible, fast and robust. It's not as well rounded (yet), but the embedded PD is a huge plus. -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

On 04/16/2014 03:12 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: Yeah, through wine... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

On 04/16/2014 03:42 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software. Yeah, tried it quickly, a few quirks, seems slow, no midi in IIRC. I might return later when the dust have settled... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

On 04/16/2014 09:57 PM, William Light wrote: Ok, digging reaper, though... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

"I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software." I think it's interesting to know why you end up using Windows software on Linux. Critique is not bad imho. On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 8:26 PM, Atte <atte(a)youmail.dk> wrote:

Yes thanks. For the NON modular way, you don't need that many tools today, knowing that Carla hosts all plugin formats. With Non-Session-Manager you've everything in one session folder, just like in a DAW. Non-Timeline is reliable imo, you won't loose data with it. Too bad non-sequencer is not finished today and offers only a pattern based solution. Qtractor, Ardour, AMS, Zynaddsubfx, Carla etc. has NSM support. But you didn't choose Qtractor or Ardour either ... On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Atte <atte(a)youmail.dk> wrote:

No I didn't. What I see is that NON and Carla are cool, but non-sequencer not ready and not lineair sequencing. Qtractor still lacks JACK Midi and bus routing is strange, Ardour 3 is still a long long wait for proper midi, that's all. :) On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Atte <atte(a)youmail.dk> wrote:

I love the idea of FLOSS software, especially for creative work like music. Most of the time I just do small pieces of music, to experiment and to test the software. One of my dreams is to compose music and I hope I'll be able to use Floss software then. I'm enthusiastic and idealistic about Floss software, Bitwig is nice, but I miss the idealistic feeling comparing to when I use NON :) Atm I try to focus on acoustic instruments, playing (double)bass in two bands now and I realize that I've still a lot to learn when it comes to music. Reaper via Wine, is almost against my Floss & technical principles ... I still believe in Floss software, if the devs could care more about the finishing touch and fluent integration between tools which makes a product really useful. I probably should blame myself for not giving up hope already ;) With Ardour3, NON, NSM, Carla, Radium, Supercollider, we should have enough tools to be able to produce music with Floss software right? But yeah, the difference is that a commercial tool like Bitwig gives you a more or less 'ready-to-go-product' whereas with Floss linuxaudio software you've to jump from workaround to workaround. But I don't give up hope yet! :) I'll give Reaper a shot, just to know what I can do with it. On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Atte <atte(a)youmail.dk> wrote:

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:34 AM, rosea grammostola < rosea.grammostola(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I don't know... Maybe it depends on the kind of music you are doing. I've been using Ardour2/3 (and Rosegarden, previously) for years to produce various symphonic scores and heavy metal recordings, among other things, without resorting to workarounds. The only thing I am missing on Linux are good orchestral sample sets (I have to use Windows for that, on a separate machine). There are some free ones but they just don't compare to what is available commercially. It's not a failing of Linux, though, it's a failing of producers who don't release for Linux. If Kontakt ever gets released on Linux, I will be dropping Windows in a heartbeat. FWIW, I like Reaper, too. I use it on Windows to host VST samplers like Kontakt or EWQL Play. As a recording & mixing environment, though, I far prefer Ardour (and Mixbus). -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi

The first problem of Reaper, it lacks LADSPA and LV2 support ... On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Tilo Kremer &lt;lau(a)dadacafe.org&gt; wrote:

It just feels stupid to start working with an app on linux which doesn't support native plugins. Is Qtractor so bad? On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:27 PM, Atte &lt;atte(a)youmail.dk&gt; wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Atte wrote: Speaking as a guitarist first... so sequencing is less interesting to me (though I do have an old DX7) than it might be to others. But I have an extremely tight budget. For many years my hardware has been what others have cast off... I have just not had the money to buy computer hardware, let alone a pricey OS (I did use a copy of OS/2 I actually paid for at one time) or even more pricey applications (which is what finally killed OS/2 for me). Things have gotten better and I am finally getting a replacement for my 10 plus year old P4. A xeon based system would be wonderful I am sure, but the cost is still too much. None of the MB out there seem to have PCI slots at all or much in the way of on board video. So besides the added expense of replacing my audio IF (One thing at a time please) at $500 plus I have everything else to get as well. So I have ordered an asus z87 board with 3 PCI slots (to give me some choice of irq) with an i5 processer. The only real difference I could see between the i5 and i7 is that the i7 has hyperthreading which I would have to turn off anyway. I did also look at the atom boards. There is a very nice 8 core atom out these days tha would probably run circles around what I am getting, but again nothing with pci slots... or enough of any slots, and the video is not there for a desktop. Atoms are made for notepads and servers. They work great headless. All that to say, I don't have the resources to try out comercial apps. SO I haven't. Ardour for me (even 2) has everything I need and I can't imagine needing something more. I have looked at other daws in Linux and just the time to learn to use them has been difficult to find. I did DL bitwig to try. It seems to work ok, but did not grab me with a "I gotta have this" feeling or anything. It was not enough for me to spend my time learning it. Quite honestly I had a sequencer program on my Atari mega2 way back before digital recording that was better than anything I have seen since (and it was shareware). Though to be honest some of that glow may have more to do with it being my first and memory dimming things :) Back then, midi was the only way I could do a drum track because the other 7 audio tracks on tape were required for other more important things. Even bass was recorded that way sometimes. So really, I use Linux audio first, because I can afford it. Second because every experience I have had with wondows has been bad or at least less than impressive. Win 3.1 against OS/2 2.1 then Linux against win 95, 98, ME, NT, xp, win7... apple stuff is just out of my range to even try. So it would be really easy for me to say FOSS is it, because that is about all I use, but the reality is that I would pay for sw if I felt it was better and I could afford it. The other reality is that FOSS SW does everything I need right now, gives me enough info to tune my system, and just works. Trying stuff that costs money just to try it, for me, and perhaps others, is just pie in the sky stuff. While demos try to be complete enough to try everything without giving the whole thing away, to really try something, I would need to do at least one (but probably more) project with it. I am not going to waste my time learning something that well where I can't save my work, so trying means buying. A demo just allows someone to figure out that something just won't work for them, not if it will work. So some of us are "handicapped" when it comes to commenting on commercial SW. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net

On 20 Apr 2014 02:36, "Atte" &lt;atte(a)youmail.dk&gt; wrote: DAW(s) *alot* I even make some money with it from time to time, so I simply need something that works. I feel bitwig is expensive at 300 euros is a bit expensive, though... It's completely free to try Reaper tho.. I did try it a while back but stopped after only a short try out because I couldn't work out how to do audio punch-in recording (also a problem with qtractor and rosegarden for me last time I tried it). Also there was some suggestion that reaper on wine didn't scale that well with multiple tracks vs. Windows. Didn't have a change to test that tho. I also got too caught up with trying which vsts I could get to work stably and wasted a lot of time!!! In the end I do most of my live recordings in mixbus which is quite good but fairly heavy to run, and no midi, which is a bit of a problem but jack transport with hydrogen/seq24 is quite good. Last time I tried ardour 3 it wasn't quite there for me. For electronic or loop-based live instruments I still think renoise is the best option. J

It's a shame to read that! When I have done any messing with music over the last near 10 years it's always been Renoise I've reached for! Have to admit I've been too busy with other things, and now travelling, to even have downloaded and played with the new Beta. From a scan of the release not I thought at least the first two points would have been the kind of things they were addressing. Does sound like some quite nice features have come in. Especially if Redux works well, maybe you can use some of the old goodness from Renoise in a new choice of DAW. Anyway I for one would be very interested to know what an ex-Renoiser settles on within the available Linux possibilities. There are a fair few I've been meaning to spend some time with but never found the time, mood and motivation in my life together. Radium with pd sounds very interesting though, especially as getting into GEM for some live graphical work for our parties is another little promise I have made myself but am yet to realise. Regards, Dale/Kazakore.