On 10/08/2018 03:04 PM, Brent Busby wrote: I tried doing Ubuntu's "upgrade to new distribution" thing on my wife's laptop. It had worked perfectly when moving her from Ubuntu 14 to 16. It cranked away, announced that it was done and ready to reboot. Rebooted but had no working network connection. It appears that Ubuntu 18 decided to use a whole new application for network manager, and upgrading in place I guess couldn't be bothered to translate the existing network configuration to the new application. Doesn't quite seem like an LTS version to me, either. -- David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com

On October 9, 2018 10:13:47 PM HST, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote: It was worse than that. There was no wired network device to get an IP on. -- David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com Sent from my Android device with F/LOSS K-9 Mail.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2018, Dale Powell wrote: xfce works fine here. But I agree Plasma works well too. The only problem I have had with plasma was that it comes with a wayland login choice and in some DMs it is not labled that way and so the first Plasma login does nothing (well seems to freeze my system... no wayland thanks) BTW, I have installed Studio and then Plasma on top of it and been quite happy with it. Hmm another case of YMMV. I have used two screens with Studio since forever and never had a problem. I do use Intel graphics though I have used nvidia in the past both with open and closed drivers and have not had trouble with multiple screens. xfce uses xrander based display managment and could do more than it does I guess... there are times it would be nice to make one screen "sticky" when moving through workspaces but I haven't found that a problem. I guess I don't use tree view. However, I would still choose Thunar over Nautilus which has been gnomed to death... Enjoy, I did try Majaro, I could make it work in a way I liked, but it was much more work that either xfce or Plasma. One of the "new" gnome-isms that I hate is thew take over of of the window decorations. I tend to use many windows on any screen and I want to know which window has focus. I look for a desktop theme where the window with focus has a different colour than all others. Right now I am using orange for focused and grey for unfocused. Any gnome app I use insists on a grey title bar no matter what the theme is and merely makes the text slightly greyer for unfocused. This forces one to use click to focus instead of focus follows mouse (they still don't seem to have focus follows mind for some reason) which makes things like copying from one window in full view to a window partly covered hard to do. Skinny window handles is another of complaint I have against many of the newer desktop themes. The motif wm may be old and plain but it easy to actually use.... though some of the old scroll bars took some getting used to :) No I am not suggesting a return to motif or fvwm... I do not know which software installer is normally used for debian installs... but the old USC and the newer gnome software are both something to run away from. Synaptic and Muon both seem to work fine. (commandline programs are fine too) But the newer software installers have worked hard to divorce the GUI from the back end so that they can work with wayland... however they have not put in place any feedback communication from the backend installer to tell you things like "hey we are going to remove half your system so we can install this package you have asked for" or "this package is asking a question, how would you like to answer?" I have spent more time helping people restore/fix their system after using a bad sw installer. Jack installs with no RT is also very common too. The short answer is that there is no reason to use Wayland unless you are testing/working on it. There is no reason to use Wayland in the audio world as all of your software will have to use Wayland's X translation to run it. Good Audio plugins do not use QT or GTK or other dynamic library based GUI's and so will not have wayland back ends. (This is probably true for plugins for other kinds of sw as well... like gimp for example) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net

Le Tue, 9 Oct 2018 08:42:46 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> a écrit : I am using gentoo with fvwm-crystal in its svn version from years, and is very happy with it. fvwm with the fvwm-crystal themes just work and is never in my way. Also, the fvwm-crystal applications menu is the only one I know that have full support for the additional categories of the freedesktop menu norm (it is even better than the debian menu system for that and just work out of the box), and it never appended I lost a customization of that menu. These application menu concerns are the main reason why I begun to use fvwm-crystal: I hate to redo what I have already done, and I hate to do what should be done automatically by desktops that pretend to follow the freedesktop normalisation. Cheers, Dominique -- If you have a problem and you are not doing anything to fix it, you are at the heart of the problem.

On 09/10/18 16:42, Len Ovens wrote: You can use libgtk3-nocss to make Gnome 3 apps use the window manager theme under xfce (on Debian, at least: sudo apt install gtk3-nocsd). It's also supposedly possible to add 'export GTK_CSD=0' to ~/.xsessionrc to achieve the same result, though I haven't actually tried that. Colin.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, Colin Fletcher wrote: I found libgtk3-nocsd0... hmm maybe I need the environment variable too. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:37:19 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote: Even this is limited. It works when e.g. running $ gedit but fails when e.g. running $ gksudo gedit ;) -- pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-pussytoes,-cornflower}}|cut -d\ -f2 4.18.12.arch1-1 4.18.12_rt7-1 4.18.7_rt5-1 4.18.5_rt3-1 4.16.18_rt12-1

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:25:23 +0200, Hermann Meyer wrote: I've done this ;). -- pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-pussytoes,-cornflower}}|cut -d\ -f2 4.18.12.arch1-1 4.18.12_rt7-1 4.18.7_rt5-1 4.18.5_rt3-1 4.16.18_rt12-1

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 08:19:10 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote: I'm also not using gedit, it was juts the first app that came to mind, to test gtk3-nocsd. For PDFs I prefer atril over evince. In short, at the moment no GNOME app at all comes to mind, that I might use sometimes. -- pacman -Q linux{,-rt{,-securityink,-pussytoes,-cornflower}}|cut -d\ -f2 4.18.12.arch1-1 4.18.12_rt7-1 4.18.7_rt5-1 4.18.5_rt3-1 4.16.18_rt12-1

On 10/08/2018 11:16 PM, Dale Powell wrote: That's not what happened to me. There doesn't appear to be an XUbuntu release anymore. Same place it's always been. https://xubuntu.org/download#lts Download Xubuntu « Xubuntu<https://xubuntu.org/download#lts> The 18.04 release, codenamed Bionic Beaver, is a Long Term Support release and has support for 3 years. To learn more about the release, please refer to the release announcement, which has links to complete release notes as well as highlights of the improvements in the release. If you don’t know ... xubuntu.org I downloaded the 18.04.1 LTS, installed it over my existing 16.04 LTS installation. It never prompted me about choosing between Wayland or X. When I added XFCE4 to it after 18.04.1 was successfully installed, XFCE either wouldn't start or it would freeze up. It still doesn't get along with the Gnome3 privacy screen, either. I found this post: https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-disable-wayland-and-enable-xorg-display-serv… Where it states that the default Ubuntu 18.04 BB installation comes with Wayland enabled, and you need to disable Wayland to use X instead. I would have been more inclined to believe the official Ubuntu Blog post but if that wasn't your experience how can I argue. I've only installed the Studio and the Xubuntu versions of 18.04 which I'm pretty sure were Xorg... And here's a post about XFCE transitioning to Wayland: https://www.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/73gihm/are_there_any_plans_for_xfce_… Not encouraging. That's from when 17.10 was coming out with Wayland, and from what I read was a bit of a failure, hence why they're back on Xorg... -- David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

On 10/10/2018 01:19 AM, Dale Powell wrote: Followup. Xubuntu 18.04.1 LTS successfully installed on my laptop, without any Wayland/Xorg switchery although Ubuntu's Software Updater doesn't seem to exist on Xubuntu. Added the KXStudio repositories and now have a successful Ubuntu 18 music setup. :) -- David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com