david wrote: Same here. Very experimental :-) -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

On 01/30/2010 07:44 AM, Bengt Gördén wrote: Now I know this is an insult. It is malicious or just trying to be funny? Maybe try adjusting the levels and you might hear a bit more variation in the sound palate. If you do and feel like sahring your results it would be much appreciated. You could also try skipping through to about 25mins which is my favourite part of the track. Cheers. Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

There is definitely a problem with the file - excerpt of what I actually hear emailed back. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

On 29/1/2010, "james morris" <james(a)jwm-art.net> wrote: Actually, I'll partially take that back. I probably would have listened to it whatever. In fact, the reason I did download it and attempt to listen, was because of Folderol's message and assuming that he heard "a strange warbling noise" because it was just not his style of music. I guess the biggest disappointment was due to expecting to like it - expecting it to change completely, that the warbling was just for five minutes before something spectacular happened. James.

fredag 29 januari 2010 22:40:10 skrev Patrick Shirkey: Insult???? Being funny??? Do you have a problem?? You share your piece. I think I hear heartbeats that I find interesting and I compare it to one of the most precious moments of my life. Being funny??? Hey buddy. You don't deserve it. And for the record. I sat in a chair in the living room and my wife happened to hear your sound palate and made a remark that was precisely mine. . /bengan

On 01/30/2010 11:26 AM, Diego Simak wrote: I said that *I* consider it in that genre. I also said it was a raw uprocessed cut and asked for people to test it on their system and if they could be bothered to find a way to make it sound cleaner to let me know what they did. Defining genres for experimental synthesis pieces is a minefield. I thought that everyone round here was already aware of that and would approach this as more of a puzzle with an open perspective considering the lead in I attempted to give. Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

On 30/01/2010, Gwenhwyfaer <gwenhwyfaer(a)gmail.com> wrote: ...And the line I should have added to that email is "That's what persuades me that it CAN'T be what you intended us to hear."

On 30/01/2010, Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote: Right. In that case, your description is somewhat subjective, to say the least. Well, that's the problem with experimental work. It's hard to know what's intentional glitchiness / hypnotic noise and what's a mixer malfunction, and as a result difficult to offer any kind of constructive criticism. It might have been better if you'd presented some kind of source file - either a sequence or a multitrack recording, depending on how you captured it. Then (a) we wouldn't all have been standing round saying "is this broken?" and (b) we would have been able to do the tweaking you requested (and at sensible volumes; I was listening at 5am, and I doubt my neighbour would have appreciated me jacking up 100 watts of anyone's experiment). I did try to have a fiddle with my OGG player's graphic EQ, but it didn't make a whole lot of difference. Of course, if you basically recorded a stereo capture, then... sorry. An hour long OGG doesn't count as "raw material", however unprocessed it is. Or possibly, you're too close to the material. You've had 48 hours (plus all the time since then) and knowledge of what you were doing to hear all of its intricacies and really get inside it. Expecting a stranger to do that cold from a misdescribed OGG is a bit of a reach. There were bits at the end where I thought I could hear a little of what you were talking about... but I have a feeling I'd also have to spend somewhere approaching 48 hours on it to hear everything you're hearing, and as I say, I'm well-disposed towards experimentalism anyway. And on that subject - you mentioned doing this for 48 hours straight. Now, for most people, that (a) will make their perceptions somewhat unreliable anyway - mine start to get woozy after about 15; and (b) isn't possible without some form of chemical assistance, which again has perception altering effects. So I think we're not entirely out of bounds calling into question the reliability of your perception - although if you mean "48 hours divided into 10-hour sessions, with copious sleep in between", I do apologise and retract. Yes, that is true; however, as I've said previously, I don't see these qualities as being in opposition. You might have been on safer ground if you'd namedropped "recent Autechre" (or something a bit more obscure, like Nurse With Wound or something). And to clarify, I don't think you're mad describing it as music. Music is anything which sounds like music to the listener, after all - as far as birds are concerned, they're just bragging about their willies; it's us who hear song. No, the problem with your description was that it was subjective, way too close, and done from the wrong side of the accessibility barrier - unintentionally, I'm positive. Asking people to listen to an hour at a stretch is a BIG ask, even if you're giving them an hour of Mozart. You might be better advised to trim out some highlights first - and as I say, if you're looking for in depth tweaking, source material might be a better offer anyway.

On 01/31/2010 10:42 AM, philicorda wrote: I kind of like the way the crackles sound at low volume but they are way to upfront in the raw version which does destroy the sound a lot. I have heard the crackles used to quite good effect over the past year or so from some of the touring EU based DJ's. They tend to be playing a more minimal/tech/house sound too. That's part of my dilemma too. If I completely bypass the high and middle what do I replace it with? You make a good suggestion. I know what you mean. I would call that vocal house. To me Tech House is a more edgy sound that verges on experimental/minimal and industrial. The crossover is such that you can often hear a Tech House set progress through to a minimal electro sound Maybe I consider this track to be somewhere in the middle ground where it might be possible to transition from a pure house sound to a minimal sound using a section of this track to join the set together. To my ear it has a four on the floor beat which is pure house. Cheers. Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

Patrick Shirkey wrote: Listen: I downloaded your track played it back with vlc. Listened to the first 2 minutes and all I hear is a fm-like wobble. I then skip through the piece (lasting 80 minutes) and no matter where I listen I hear wobble. Either your file is broken or it's very experimental (I doubt the latter), don't tell me I'm insulting you! At least check/reencode/mp3ize/upload-on-soundcloud/anything the file before you insult me! -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

Hi, I'd like to add a few words. When I first listen to your soundfile I was very disappointed (I said to myself that this is an excess of intention or just a buggy soundfile), but after reading the other mails I definitely think that this is something to be criticized. No offense, but here it goes: You can not advertise something to be something that it isn't. I mean, sorry, but did you even read the article about tech house on Wikipedia<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techhouse>or the Ishkur's guide to electronic music <http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/> sound examples on tech house. And you can not say that this file is just "unprocessed", I mean if you look at the waveform and listen to the sound there's obviously something wrong with it, a codec problem or just a bad recording. My belief is, although experimenting with linux audio can be a very consistent and creative result, this doesn't mean that you can easily get a piece of music or even a piece of noise and show it to anyone. I love noise, drones and experimental sound, but also in this case the redundancy its something hard to avoid and an art to achieve. Patrick, you should be honest about your soundfile and you should try to be more careful and respectful when you want a feedback from the list. That was on my mind... I wish you all the best and a lot of fun with linux audio stuff marius On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Patrick Shirkey < pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com&gt; wrote:

On 01/30/2010 08:32 PM, Marius Stoica wrote: The track has issues in it's unprocessed form. That's why I asked for suggestions on what to do to clean it up and bring out the sound. If you look at it in an audio visualisation app you will see there is a huge amount of variety in the soundscape. It's all there just waiting to be brought out. I tried to make it clear that it is an experimental synthesised/generative piece. I was figuring that a bunch of hardened Linux Audio peeps would be a receptive audience and possibly enjoy the challenge of bringing out the sounds that are hidden in the track. The feedback I got from the list was pretty much that I presented I load of bollocks and I am wasting peoples time and apparently their bandwidth too by offering up my art for serious criticism. Cheers for taking the time to offer some constructive criticism. Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

On 01/30/2010 08:39 PM, Atte André Jensen wrote: Wow, you really didn't need to do all that! That variation is caused by the way I was using the tap echo on the left and right channels. Notice too how the volume changes over time. It looks pretty cool when you present it like that ;-) What app did you use for the waveform display? Cheers. Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

On 01/30/2010 08:54 PM, Atte André Jensen wrote: Yes. They are truly representative of what I was offering for the list to consider. The idea is to clean up the sound to enhance the soundscape and bring out the parts that are being obscured. I have received a few useful suggestions off list now which is much appreciated. Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

On 01/30/2010 10:02 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: that's a pretty hard task... i haven't had a chance to listen to your tune yet, but judging from other people's comments, it's probably going to be impossible to give any meaningful mixing hints if i haven't the faintest idea what the music is about. as a somewhat related anecdote, i had the pleasure of mixing a dutch doom/death metal band called "Izegrim" a few months ago. what i heard was this: * a female band leader who would growl all the time in the c2-c3 range and play a constant eighths-note pulse on an electric bass tuned down a fourth * two guitarists doing powercords in the first three frets on guitars likewise tuned down a fourth * a drummer who had switched on his 16th-note double bass during soundcheck and only turned it off after the last encore. in short: i hadn't the faintest idea what these guys were up to, and to my ears the entire sound was totally fucked up. you couldn't differentiate anything, because everything was kinda below 800hz, with the possible exception of the kick drum :) i half expected to get beat up real bad by the local metal crowd, but for some reason, they liked the sound - some even gave me a thumbs-up, and they were too boozed-up for sarcasm. morale: there are genres that i can't possibly comment on. similar problem with circuit bending... if you want to make your mix safer, run it through an analyzer, see in which bands most of the energy is pumped out, and check if that's what you hear / want to hear. if not, roll it off or try some multiband compression. also, check for sounds under 40 hz - what will sound great on a club p.a. will just generate heat and general muddiness on a less than hi-end home stereo... best jörn

Patrick Shirkey wrote: Now I actually hear what I would call "leftoevers of a kick" below some fm-ish wobble. In a final attempt to understand if this is really what I should hear, could you: 1) Tell which software you used to produce the audio (synths, seqs, how you captured the audio, how you compressed to ogg). Also what softsynths were used for which parts? If you write PD or csound I expect one thing, if you write muse, specimen and "ams for the synthbass" I expect something else... 2) Upload a wav, mp3 and flac of the same file (of course not extracted from the ogg, but from the original audio stream). 3) Post a link to something (for instance on youtube) that sounds kinda like what you're aiming for? Sorry I'm still doubting what I hear is what you intend, I'm really just trying to be friendly here :-) -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk

On 01/30/2010 11:46 PM, michael noble wrote: Thanks for your feedback. I will try out your suggestions and see how that helps. I hadn't thought of splitting up the frequency ranges before processing. That is a neat trick for this kind of palate. I am considering remixing parts of the complete 10 hour session into more genre friendly, law abiding pieces too. I think I have enough material for about 20 tracks if I can find the time/motivation. These "tracks" I am putting up here I feel are good enough to stand alone. I get sometimes tired of listening to 3-4 minute radio friendly format and enjoy listening to a long rolling progression on occasion. You don't find much of this type of format being posted to the list. BTW, I also enjoy slow food, sleeping all day, reading long technical books, and the longest I have gone in front of a computer is 72 hours with no drugs, coffee and just a little sleep. Maybe that gives people an idea of where I am coming from. Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Patrick Shirkey &lt;pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com Not exactly what you are after, but FreqTweak is good for experimenting with this kind of processing. If you find a frequency band and filter combination that works you can then replicate in ardour with a ladspa chain from a bandpass filter. At least that's how I'd approach it. -omjn

Excerpts from Patrick Shirkey's message of 2010-01-31 05:00:06 +0100: The calf plug-ins come to mind. The svn version has a sidechain compressor but I haven't tried to use it yet. You'll likely need to run it in calfjackhost. Afaik there are also a couple of ladspa sidechain compressors that could be used in jack-rack. Sidechaining is afaik not easy in ardour2.8.x. Regards, Philipp

On 01/31/2010 10:40 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: I will definitely be running the final product through jamin. Cheers. Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd